WHO IS ARIEL SHARON? INTERVIEW BY AMOS OZ
Preliminary remark by Sami Aldeeb,
Doctor of laws. Swiss, Christian of Palestinian origin
The Middle East is living a nightmare, notably because
of a man of Russian origin who became Prime Minister
of Israel: Ariel Sharon. What is the profound thought
of this man? This is what Amos Oz, an Israeli writer,
help us to discover through an interview published by
the Israeli daily Davar in December 17, 1982.
Amos Oz reproduced this interview, with others, in
his book in Hebrew, 1982: Amos Oz: Poh va-sham be-Erets-Yisra'el
bi-setav, 1982, republished by Am Oved, Tel-Aviv, 1986.
The interview is on pages 70-82. Amos Oz does not mention
the name of Sharon, but uses the abbreviation Z. The
facts given by Amos Oz indicate that the person interviewed
is Ariel Sharon.
This book has been published in French: Amos Oz: Les
voix d'Israël, translated by Guy Seniak, Calmann-Lévy,
Paris, 1983. The interview is on pages 79-91. Here again,
Amos Oz does not mention the name of Sharon, but uses
the abbreviation T. A French version is also produced
in: Letter no 2 of FAITS ET DOCUMENTS, 3 September 2001:
http://www.argent.fr/fetd2.htm. This interview was transmitted
by Genie Trone - firstname.lastname@example.org -, member of a discussion
group on Internet called Together, founded by the Israeli
journalist Israel Shamir. In the introduction, it is
said that the person interviewed is certainly Ariel
The same book has been published in English: Amos Oz:
In the Land of Israel, translated by Maurie Goldberg-Bartura,
1st Vintage Books Edition, New York, 1984. Here again,
Amos Oz does not mention the name of Sharon, but uses
the abbreviation C.
I produce here the interview as published in:
It is indicated that the man referred to as C. is Sharon.
The interview can be also found in:
I invite the readers to distribute this text worldwide.
It may help opening the eyes of many people and save
THE INTERVIEW OF ARIEL SHARON BY AMOS OZ.
[Sharon]: "You can call me anything you like.
Call me a monster or a murderer. Just note that I don't
hate Arabs. On the contrary. Personally, I am much more
at ease with them, and especially with the Bedouin,
than with Jews. Those Arabs we haven't yet spoilt are
proud people, they are irrational, cruel and generous.
It's the Yids that are all twisted. In order to straighten
them out you have to first bend them sharply the other
way. That, in brief, is my whole ideology".
"Call Israel by any name you like, call it a Judeo-Nazi
state as does Leibowitz. Why not? Better a live Judeo-Nazi
than a dead saint. I don't care whether I am like Ghadafi.
I am not after the admiration of the gentiles. I don't
need their love. I don't need to be loved by Jews like
you either. I have to live, and I intend to ensure that
my children will live as well. With or without the blessing
of the Pope and the other religious leaders from the
New York Times. I will destroy anyone who will raise
a hand against my children, I will destroy him and his
children, with or without our famous purity of arms.
I don't care if he is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or pagan.
History teaches us that he who won't kill will be killed
by others. That is an iron law".
"Even if you'll prove to me by mathematical means
that the present war in Lebanon is a dirty immoral war,
I don't care. Moreover, even if you will prove to me
that we have not achieved and will not achieve any of
our aims in Lebanon, that we will neither create a friendly
regime in Lebanon nor destroy the Syrians or even the
PLO, even then I don't care. It was still worth it.
Even if Galilee is shelled again by Katyushas in a year's
time, I don't really care. We shall start another war,
kill and destroy more and more, until they will have
had enough. And do you know why it is all worth it?
Because it seems that this war has made us more unpopular
among the so-called civilised world".
"We'll hear no more of that nonsense about the
unique Jewish morality, the moral lessons of the holocaust
or about the Jews who were supposed to have emerged
from the gas chambers pure and virtuous. No more of
that. The destruction of Eyn Hilwe (and it's a pity
we did not wipe out that hornet's nest completely!),
the healthy bombardment of Beirut and that tiny massacre
(can you call 500 Arabs a massacre?) in their camps
which we should have committed with our own delicate
hands rather than let the Phalangists do it, all these
good deeds finally killed the bullshit talk about a
unique people and of being a light upon the nations.
No more uniqueness and no more sweetness and light.
"I personally don't want to be any better than
Khomeini or Brezhnev or Ghadafi or Assad or Mrs. Thatcher,
or even Harry Truman who killed half a million Japanese
with two fine bombs. I only want to be smarter than
they are, quicker and more efficient, not better or
more beautiful than they are. Tell me, do the baddies
of this world have a bad time? If anyone tries to touch
them, the evil men cut his hands and legs off. They
hunt and catch whatever they feel like eating. They
don't suffer from indigestion and are not punished by
Heaven. I want Israel to join that club. Maybe the world
will then at last begin to fear me instead of feeling
sorry for me. Maybe they will start to tremble, to fear
my madness instead of admiring my nobility. Thank God
for that. Let them tremble, let them call us a mad state.
Let them understand that we are a wild country, dangerous
to our surroundings, not normal, that we might go crazy
if one of our children is murdered - just one! That
we might go wild and burn all the oil fields in the
Middle East! If anything would happen to your child,
God forbid, you would talk like I do. Let them be aware
in Washington, Moscow, Damascus and China that if one
of our ambassadors is shot, or even a consul or the
most junior embassy official, we might start World War
Three just like that!"
......We are talking while sitting on the balcony of
the pretty country house belonging to C. which is situated
in a prosperous Moshav. To the west we see a burning
sunset and there is a scent of fruit trees in the air.
We are being served iced coffee in tall glasses. C.
is about fifty years old. He is a man well known for
his (military) actions. He is a strong, heavy figure
wearing shorts but no shirt. His body is tanned a metallic
bronze shade, the colour of a blond man living in the
sun. He puts his hairy legs on the table and his hands
on the chair. There is a scar on his neck. His eyes
wander over his plantations. He spells out his ideology
in a voice made hoarse by too much smoking:
"Let me tell me [sic] what is the most important
thing, the sweetest fruit of the war in Lebanon: It
is that now they don't just hate Israel. Thanks to us,
they now also hate all those Feinschmecker Jews in Paris,
London, New York, Frankfurt and Montreal, in all their
holes. At last they hate all these nice Yids, who say
they are different from us, that they are not Israeli
thugs, that they are different Jews, clean and decent.
Just like the assimilated Jew in Vienna and Berlin begged
the anti-Semite not to confuse him with the screaming,
stinking Ostjude, who had smuggled himself into that
cultural environment out of the dirty ghettos of Ukraine
and Poland. It won't help them, those clean Yids, just
as it did not help them in Vienna and Berlin. Let them
shout that they condemn Israel, that they are all right,
that they did not want and don't want to hurt a fly,
that they always prefer being slaughtered to fighting,
that they have taken it upon themselves to teach the
gentiles how to be good Christians by always turning
the other cheek. It won't do them any good. Now they
are getting it there because of us, and I am telling
you, it is a pleasure to watch."
"They are the same Yids who persuaded the gentiles
to capitulate to the bastards in Vietnam, to give it
in to Khomeini, to Brezhnev, to feel sorry for Sheikh
Yamani because of his tough childhood, to make love
not war. Or rather, to do neither, and instead write
a thesis on love and war. We are through with all that.
The Yid has been rejected, not only did he crucify Jesus,
but he also crucified Arafat in Sabra and Shatila. They
are being identified with us and that's a good thing!
Their cemeteries are being desecrated, their synagogues
are set on fire, all their old nicknames are being revived,
they are being expelled from the best clubs, people
shoot into their ethnic restaurants murdering small
children, forcing them to remove any sign showing them
to be Jews, forcing them to move and change their profession.
"Soon their palaces will be smeared with the slogan:
Yids, go to Palestine! And you know what? They will
go to Palestine because they will have no other choice!
All this is a bonus we received from the Lebanese war.
Tell me, wasn't it worth it? Soon we will hit on good
times. The Jews will start arriving, the Israelis will
stop emigrating and those who already emigrated will
return. Those who had chosen assimilation will finally
understand that it won't help them to try and be the
conscience of the world. The 'conscience of the world'
will have to understand through its arse what it could
not get into its head. The gentiles have always felt
sick of the Yids and their conscience, and now the Yids
will have only one option: to come home, all of them,
fast, to install thick steel doors, to build a strong
fence, to have submachine guns positioned at every corner
of their fence here and to fight like devils against
anyone who dares to make a sound in this region. And
if anyone even raises his hand against us we'll take
away half his land and burn the other half, including
the oil. We might use nuclear arms. We'll go on until
he no longer feels like it..."
"...You probably want to know whether I am not
afraid of the masses of Yids coming here to escape anti-Semitism
smearing us with their olive oil until we go all soft
like them. Listen, history is funny in that way, there
is a dialectic here, irony. Who was it who expanded
the state of Israel almost up the boundaries of the
kingdom of King David? Who expanded the state until
it covered the area from Mount Hermon to Raz Muhammad?
Levi Eshkol. Of all people, it was that follower of
Gordon, that softie, that old woman. Who, on the other
hand, is about to push us back into the walls of the
ghetto? Who gave up all of Sinai in order to retain
a civilised image? Beitar's governor in Poland, that
proud man Menahem Begin. So you can never tell. I only
know one thing for sure: as long as you are fighting
for your life all is permitted, even to drive out all
the Arabs from the West Bank, everything."
"Leibowitz is right, we are Judeo-Nazis, and why
not? Listen, a people that gave itself up to be slaughtered,
a people that let soap to be made of its children and
lamp shades from the skin of its women is a worse criminal
than its murderers. Worse than the Nazis ... If your
nice civilised parents had come here in time instead
of writing books about the love for humanity and singing
'Hear O Israel' on the way to the gas chambers, now
don't be shocked, if they instead had killed six million
Arabs here or even one million, what would have happened?
Sure, two or three nasty pages would have been written
in the history books, we would have been called all
sorts of names, but we could be here today as a people
of 25 million!"
"Even today I am willing to volunteer to do the
dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary,
to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone
hate us, to pull the rug from underneath the feet of
the Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run
to us crying. Even if it means blowing up one or two
synagogues here and there, I don't care. And I don't
mind if after the job is done you put me in front of
a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me
if you want, as a war criminal. Then you can spruce
up your Jewish conscience and enter the respectable
club of civilised nations, nations that are large and
healthy. What you lot don't understand is that the dirty
work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it. True,
it could have been finished in 1948, but you interfered,
you stopped it. And all this because of the Jewishness
in your souls, because of your Diaspora mentality. For
the Jews don't grasp things quickly. If you open your
eyes and look around the world you will see that darkness
is falling again. And we know what happens to a Jew
who stays out in the dark. So I am glad that this small
war in Lebanon frightened the Yids. Let them be afraid,
let them suffer. They should hurry home before it gets
really dark. So I am an anti-Semite? Fine. So don't
quote me, quote Lilienblum instead [an early Russian
Zionist - ed.]. There is no need to quote an anti-Semite.
Quote Lilienblum, and he is definitely not an anti-Semite,
there is even a street in Tel Aviv named after him".
(C. quotes from a small notebook that was lying on his
table when I arrived:)
'Is all that is happening not a clear sign that our
forefathers and ourselves ... wanted and still want
to be disgraced? That we enjoy living like gypsies.'
That's Lilienblum. Not me. Believe me. I went through
the Zionist literature, I can prove what I say".
"And you can write that I am disgrace to humanity,
I don't mind, on the contrary. Let's make a deal: I
will do all I can to expel the Arabs from here, I will
do all I can to increase anti-Semitism, and you will
write poems and essays about the misery of the Arabs
and be prepared to absorb the Yids I will force to flee
to this country and teach them to be a light unto the
gentiles. How about it?"
It was there that I stopped C.'s monologue for a moment
and expressed the thought passing through my mind, perhaps
more for myself than for my host. Was it possible that
Hitler had not only hurt the Jews but also poisoned
their minds? Had that poison sunk in and was still active?
But not even that idea could cause C. to protest or
raise his voice. After all, he said to have never shouted
under stress, even during the famous operations his
name is associated with.